Lone Star Heritage

Subject: For how long? What were their goals? Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:42 pm

I really don't understand. Did Texas ever mean to be an independent country for very long? What would it have been like if Texas had never joined the U.S.?

Thanks,
Madelyn

Subject: Re: For how long? What were their goals? Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:26 pm

Hey, Madelyn sunny

Thank you so much for your many posted, queries. They are clear and pure and drawn from your own, curious heart .... and not from the well of another. E-mail me!

Unfortunately for me, I don't have a grasp of the answers! But ... I'm grateful for the prompting to learn.

Years ago, I took a 'Texas history' course from a professor who was English-born and Cambridge-educated. She seemed to be much more cognizant of the 'preoccupation with Empire' which Texans are (were?) said to possess. Professor Chandler assigned D. W. Meinig's 'Imperial Texas: An Interpretive Essay in Cultural Geography' as a part of our reading load. I now have taken it out again.

Growing up, I was more conscious of my family's carrying a Southern heritage than of anything closely 'Texan' or 'Western.' How was it for you? For us, the Southern reminders were everywhere .... in our foods, in our prevalent attitudes, in our social relationships and connections, in our faith. Though my family was here during 'Republic' days, I feel divorced from what this may have meant to them, and it disturbs me.

Others can answer your questions, sweet Madelyn. I'm just brooding mine, and hoping that they awake to understanding Wink

Holly
_________________
The woman of the frontier made the best of her situation, for she had developed a respect for the land that gave her freedom as well as the courage to live in it.
~~~ from the perspective of Anne Seagraves

Joined : 29 May 2007 Posts : 88

That is an issue that is in doubt, as best I can tell. Many (including many in Mexico) thought that the Revolution was intended as a step on the way to expansion of the USA. Sam Houston, especially, was thought of as an agent of this - he was a protege of Andrew Jackson, who was perceived as an expansionist and Empire Builder.

Houston was, certainly, by the 1840s, a proponent of annexation and was against, fifteen years later, (yes - it was only 15 years from annexation to the crisis that led to the War of Northern Aggression, with Texas choosing the losing side) secession. John W. Thomason, Jr. in his novels LONE STAR PREACHER and GONE TO TEXAS has scenes in which Houston proposes, if holding to the Union isn't possible, secession as a Republic again, with neutrality the goal. Interesting idea.

On the other hand - it is pretty clear that (whatever Houston and perhaps others intended in 1836) that there were a number of the folks involved who wanted Texas to be and remain an independent republic. Circumstances prevented that - mainly the population was too thin and the money too short. By 1845, Texas was BROKE. It didn't pay for guns ordered from Tryon and the Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company (that default is said to have helped force The Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company of Paterson, NJ into bankruptcy, by the way).

So - I don't know if there is a definitive answer to the question posed. Nobody left alive really knows what everybody intended and writings aren't always extant - or persuasive...

Subject: Re: For how long? What were their goals? Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:49 pm

Holly I think what I came away with from my childhood was suburban chic. Not very impressive Rolling Eyes

I could have gotten that anywhere, except maybe not in that little Mexican village.

Clyde so we really could have been our own country for a long time. Why don't we just turn it around now and make Mexico into a bunch of new states for the US?

Madelyn

Joined : 29 May 2007 Posts : 88

Madelyn asked "Clyde so we really could have been our own country for a long time. Why don't we just turn it around now and make Mexico into a bunch of new states for the US?"

Well - actually, in 1845 Texas COULDN'T have been its own country for long. Mexico was hostile and more powerful than Texas just then - not least because Texas was claiming a lot of territory (the strip between the Nueces and the Rio Grande del Norte and the other territory north of the Rio Grande in what is now eastern New Mexico and Colorado) that Mexico didn't think ought to be in Texas even if they DID decide to recognize the Republic. The Republic was BROKE and had no way to become solvent (at least not right then). Its only chance for survival as a viable political entity was to get annexed by the United States as a state. And then get the USA to assume the Republic's debts - which it traded what is now eastern New Mexico, Eastern Colorado and part of Oklahoma to the US to get.

We won't make Mexico into a bunch of new states because the Mexicans don't want us to. They want to take the Southwest back as part of Mexico - Aztlan Plan - instead. Make no mistake - the Mexicans (both the ruling class of thieves in high places and the common people) want NOTHING to do with a government of the sort the United States would bring them. Nor should we want the villains as a part of the US.

Subject: Re: For how long? What were their goals? Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:10 pm

That makes sense. it would probably be better for Mexico to have us than the other way around. Thanks for the answer.

Madelyn

Joined : 09 Mar 2008 Posts : 5 Localisation : TEXAS

The Texas land question has always lingered on the finger tips of many a president. The "Manifest Destiny" bug began to deeply impregnate itself into the minds of many Americans. The thought of "sea to shining sea" conclusion, no matter who was in the way, was a very real ideal of the times. Mexico was surely nervous, and rightly so, about the actions of Gutierrez~Magee and James Long attempts at land grabs.
After the Tex. Revolution some Texian politicians viewed the all important trading post of Santa Fe as a key for future trade. Claiming vast amounts of territory from a disorganized Mexico was easier done than could be backed up.
The Rep. of Texas was broke (sold off its navy), true, and many, not all, viewed it natural to side up to the US for protection (Indians and Mexicans) and stability and with a better future.
Many believed all along Houston or following administrations, planned on being annexed to the US from the very beginning and only Texas pride of having fought for its independence kept this act from occuring sooner.
Texas joining the US over Mexico's objections would help lead to two bloody military wars.
Hope this helps in some small way Very Happy

Subject: Re: For how long? What were their goals? Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:59 pm

When you say Texas joining the US over Mexico, do you mean back in the 1800's or did you mean what would happen if Texas joined Mexico now?

Regards,
Madelyn